www.CarmentaLatin.com Latin Pronunciation: Classical versus Italian Thіѕ іѕ јυѕt one іn a series οf video blogs frοm thе Carmenta Online Latin Classroom.Please dο nοt hesitate tο comment οr subscribe, аnd please pass thіѕ page along tο anyone уου thіnk mіght bе interested. Mу name іѕ Andrew. I teach Latin online through thе Carmenta Online Latin Classroom tο students around thе world. Thе Latin classes I teach аrе completely live, wіth live audio аnd video. All students іn thе class аrе аblе tο speak live wіth mе аnd wіth each οthеr whіlе thе class іѕ іn session through Skype conference calling, аnd аll students see a live video feed οf mе, thе teacher, аѕ I аm teaching thе class. Thе Carmenta course meets three times per week аnd іѕ a serious course, fοr serious students whο аrе interested іn learning thе Latin language. It іѕ equivalent tο a gοοd high-school- οr college-level course taken іn a traditional setting, bυt іt brings wіth іt thе flexibility аnd convenience οf thе internet. *Please visit mу web site. It contains information οn thе course, mу blog οn Latin аnd English topics, аnd a number οf οthеr extras thаt уου hopefully wіll find іntеrеѕtіng. www.CarmentaLatin.com Email Instructor@CarmentaLatin.com
@oppie47 Ah, I see. Thanks for clearing it up!
@OtterMoone
Here are two different examples of Mozart’s Requiem pronounced two different ways:
German: watch?v=0-i5S4uXlNg
Italian: watch?v=Qd7uuhEeEo4
Note the hard G’s throughout the German version & how the C is pronounced TS in “judicetur” at 1:55. Compare to 1:28 in the Italian version where the C is pronounced like an English CH.
@OtterMoone
Sounds like you’re learning classical. A good way to distinguish the different modes of pronunciation is the letter “c. ” Take the number 10 “decem” — In classical it’s pronounced “dekem” — in ecclesiastical (Italian) it’s “dechem” — in continental (Spanish, French & German) it’s “detsem” (more recently as “desem”). The ecclesiastical & continental have a ketchup vs catsup thing going on. Ecclesiastical & continental pronounce both “ae” & “oe” as the “a” in “lake. “
im not american, but i always wondered why they really only learn classical latin and not ecclesiatical
Well, I think we learn Classical, but looking at one of the comments below, we *do* learn ae as pronounced like the English “I” as in, “*I* have a cookie. ” So, the way I learned Latin, that poem doesn’t rhyme, though I’m sure originally it might have. So, is it Classical, or mixed that I’m learning ?
My biggest problem with the Italian pronunciation is that it’s anachronistic too. How? The pronunciation of the letter “J. ” As Italian evolved, all the /j mutated into /dʒ, ie. Gianaio, Giulio, Gesù, Giuseppe, giustizia, giardino, etc. So then, why would “Iehova” be pronounced as je:ova instead of dʒe:ova? When Italian has /w sounds (uomo, uovo) why not pronounce it je:owa? Seriously!? In my mind, the mutation of /j & /w sounds need to be implemented consistently as /dʒ & /v respectively.
An ecclesiastical pronunciation is sometimes necessary. Take the Requiem Mass for instance:
“Recordare, Iesu pie,
Quod sum causa tuæ viæ:
Ne me perdas illa die. ”
The rhyme would be completely lost if “tuæ viæ” were pronounced “tuai viai” instead of “tue vie. “
I think a mixed approach to pronunciation would be the best. As a classical music lover, I would draw comparison to modern vs. period instruments. If you’re performing a Modern composer like Stravinsky, modern instruments ARE period instruments. On the other hand, with a composer like Mozart the difference between modern and period can be astounding. Compare:
Modern – watch?v=wVkGz8lmL9o
Period – watch?v=Nb0NJ9yGjW0
@CarmentaOnlineLatin Actually I was just thinking that you had Marlin Brando brow expressions.
@CarmentaOnlineLatin (part 2) We speak of the development of modern Romance languages in terms of the sound changes from Latin to the respective languages, so we need to know as much as we can about how Latin was spoken at that time. This is why I need to learn Latin. . . to understand the sound changes that happened when it diverged into the Romance languages. There is plenty of room for both a linguistic view and artistic view of Latin, and they don’t need to be in conflict.
@CarmentaOnlineLatin Latin pronunciation is a matter of perspective. Are we speaking critically, or linguistically?
A descriptive linguist can’t make value judgments of “beauty” when attempting to linguistically analyze a language. Many linguists build their entire careers on attempting to reconstruct the pronunciation of dead languages through empirical data and sound laws. Their work is important, and helps lay the foundation of Romance linguistics. (cont’d)
@lxnvcts Good point. I would say that the pedants have taken over Latin. They are trying to replace beauty with the pretense of scholarship.
Ecclesiastical Latin is the most and actually the only authentic pronounciation. First, it has a greater variety than the assumed “classical” pronounciation (restored by using Latin words in Greek) which makes it sounds very beautiful.
Ecclesiastical (medieval/late antique) Latin is older than for instance the beautiful English of Shakespeare. It is truely authentic and shouldn’t be replaced by a modern version of the “classical”.
@maregrande2 Ha! People are constantly telling me I look like one or the other, but I think you’re right — I’m about halfway between the two.
He looks like a cross between Dexter and Jim Carey.
@Skate4life12396 that is a very dumb question
@Katara888Energy Thanks for the support. See ya round the internets.
@Skate4life12396
Exactly.
I am fully versed in both.
@tsimos4eva
You are taught something that is similar to classical pronunciation except for the qu and the diphthongs.
@Skate4life12396 Yeah, that’s right.
Let me get this straight the Romans spoke Latin and the Greeks spoke Greek right?
Holy crap Chris Pontius!
Hello, I think that much more important thing is, that all people, who can speak Latin understand each other! I am Czech, we usually use medieval latin pronunciantion, but I know rules of classic, church, italian pronunciation; I was studying in the Netherlands, they use another latin pronunciation, but I understood everyone without any problems.
Thanks for this video.
Salvus sis!
@alfie1888 I teach Latin online under the name of the Carmenta Online Latin School, and the classes have live audio and video. The link to my web site is on my YouTube page. Thanks for your interest.